Putting People Over Paperwork

Liliana Sandoval:

Yeah, I would just add to what Jennifer was saying that at the local level, we had to zoom in even further. So our role as an outreach team is to really take all of that information that’s coming in and understand it ourselves, so that we can disseminate it for folks on the ground, for community members to really understand where they fit in. Whether they were already accessing benefits or they had never had to in their lives, and really try and make it easy for them in this new context that none of us had any prior experience in.

Meredith Horowski:

That’s great. I want to follow up on that Liliana and alluding to a question that Jen raised, which is who is being left behind right now? Particularly in this environment where we’re relying so much on remote interactions and in-person service that are critical to some of the structures we have in place, are no longer as accessible. So, who’s being left behind, what’s happening to them? What are organizations like yours doing to work on supporting them?

Liliana Sandoval:

I think Jennifer hit the nail on the head with some of those populations that are being left behind. So specifically unhoused folks, folks who may not have regular access to internet, who may not even have regular access to working phones. People who may not have a mailing address, seniors, or people who don’t have a lot of knowledge around working with technology, or are navigating the internet and knowledge about how to find resources outside of physically going to an office. And when that was no longer available, we all had to change our mindsets and our models.

Liliana Sandoval:

Our program, again, is outreach. We are accustomed to 100% being out in the community, to finding people, and educating them about what this program is and making it accessible for them. We do that in person every single day. And through our partnerships, our partners provide a variety of other resources throughout San Francisco and Marin counties, and their models are for people to come to them.

Liliana Sandoval:

We all had to change what that looked like, in order to continue serving folks, moving to phone based, having to do social media outreach, which we were not really doing before, because we didn’t really understand if the people that we were serving predominantly who in San Francisco and Marin are non-English speakers, what avenues are they accessing? Are they going to Facebook, are they going to Twitter, are they Googling, where can they get this information?

Liliana Sandoval:

So we had to really quickly adapt to try and figure out how to continue to provide these services to those folks, as well as to just keep up with the volume. I think someone mentioned earlier, just the huge increase in benefit access that folks were trying to gain. And we saw that as well, not just with our CalFresh or SNAP application assistance phone lines going from maybe 30 to 50 calls a week to 10 times that. And there’s only three of us who are on our outreach team, everybody had to be all hands-in and really take on the work as it came.

Liliana Sandoval:

So it was really just a big shift, and trying to be as agile as possible with the changes that were coming what seemed like every single day.

Meredith Horowski:

I’m hearing this theme of agility and adaptation shine through pretty strongly, both on the government services side, as well as community based organization and outreach side, which are some of the principles I think that we try and live at Code for America and in our work, which is to center people’s needs, and listen to what folks’ needs… and understanding that those things change. And they can change pretty quickly, particularly in a crisis.

Meredith Horowski:

I want to sneak in a follow-up for perhaps Tracey, what has all this meant for organizations that are focused on strengthening the safety net, particularly using technology and its principles to try and meet people where they’re at and to close the gap between folks who are eligible for services and actually getting them?

Tracey Patterson:

Yeah, great question. So I think one, it starts first and foremost by understanding what are the barriers in the state where you live, in the community where you live. The barriers are not all the same. I saw some folks in the chat talking about some states where it seems like the barriers are put up intentionally, whereas others are a form of technology.

Tracey Patterson:

I would say, as someone who’s living in California, it’s not always so black and white as that. California was actually one of the last states that required people to be fingerprinted to get food assistance, the last in the nation. So these regressive policies and attitudes impact places as the winds of politics and ideology change. And many of those barriers are intentional by design, to try to dissuade people from accessing help.

Tracey Patterson:

And so in using technology, one, it’s really important to understand like, what is the core of this? Is this an intentional barrier and what is the way around that? And if it is not, what can we do with technology to smooth that over?

Tracey Patterson:

I think for a lot of us in the civic tech, social tech, it’s one, if there is an unnecessary hoop there that we could use, if we can make things mobile friendly, if we can use text messaging, if we can use simple tools and actions to get people through some of those hoops, let’s do that. But let’s also understand when there are hoops that need to be knocked down and when the organizing to do that is broader than technology alone. And so it really takes working together to try to understand what is the problem we’re trying to solve and what are the tools we need to do that?

Meredith Horowski:

I think this confluence of understanding what are systemic barriers, and what are the approaches to tackling those, as well as what are the kinks that can be smoothed over and both the short-term and long-term focus is really important for us to keep center of mind as we’re thinking about today’s actions. And in the longer term, how we approach strengthening the social safety net for five, 10 years and beyond.

Meredith Horowski:

On that theme I want to turn to you, Veronica, about what can people do in the short term or related to some of these kinks that we see with these services, what are we seeing on the grassroots organizing side from folks who are stepping up to provide skills and support in their communities?

Veronica Young:

Yeah, absolutely. So this year, we really saw the flexing of the organizing muscle that is the Code for America Brigade Network, really coming into action during these times. So as you may be familiar with and many of you on this call are Brigade members, Code for America Brigades and other organizations across the country really work to provide tools to people in their communities.

Veronica Young:

And really our focus was this year, helping people to be able to access the services that became available during COVID-19 response. And so many of our chapters across the country really quickly swung into action. A lot of people joined our network, because I think really people’s first reaction is how can I help? But they need avenues in order to be able to do that.

Veronica Young:

And there are a lot of folks out there with technological skills, with research skills, with community organizing skills, who are able to use those skills to help people find access to these resources. So a lot of the projects that we saw popping up across the country really had to do with helping people map out where these resources were, find information, and be able to help in some of these support services.

Veronica Young:

Whether that was helping people find food, or helping people make sure that they didn’t get evicted during this time, or helping people find access to information about healthcare. So there are really a lot of resources that are available and our ability to help people find these resources really came into action and response.

Meredith Horowski:

I think a lot of that helped inform why we’re here today and what we’re doing today. Can you speak a little bit to, what are the actions that folks can engage in today? What are the different avenues to use whatever skills you have? Whether you are a designer, an engineer, an organizer, an activist, what can folks who are on the call and eager to get involved today do?

Veronica Young:

Yeah, well, we’re really excited, because we’re going to be really spending the day taking action to be able to really level up our ability to have impact within our communities. So we have three key actions designed for today. Those actions are going to be looking at our government services and how accessible they are to folks.

Veronica Young:

So we’re going to be doing a design audit of our benefits application, state by state. Code for America has a 50 states assessment that really evaluates the ability for folks to be able to access government services. And so we’re really doing a redo of that during this COVID-19 response time. So seeing how easy or in some cases, difficult it may be to access these services online. So we’ll be doing a design audit.

Veronica Young:

The next step is really where are there resources available in our communities, that are filling in the gaps where government might not be meeting people where they are? And so this goes back to the mapping that I was just talking about, that a lot of our Brigades have been engaging into helping people find resources. So you can actually work with others across the country today to build asset maps for your community, so that people are able to more easily access various services.

Veronica Young:

And then the last action we’ll be taking is in our problem statements area. So there are a couple of questions that we’ve developed with the safety net team here at Code for America, about how can we better respond in this crisis and any future crises that come up? So really looking at those problem statements, and there will be a couple of different outputs from those problems statements. Whether you’re creating a prototype of a service that could be developed to help people access services, or whether it’s creating a policy memo.

Veronica Young:

So there’s three main actions that people can take today. We’ll be breaking out into breakout rooms after this, to discuss those actions. And after that, you can work with your local Brigade. We have over 40 different groups participating today across the country, where you can join and work with others to complete these actions.

Meredith Horowski:

Thanks, Veronica. I know I speak for I think many of us on this call and many of us at Code for America and in the larger network, how inspirational and critical the rising to the challenge has been of folks within our network. And the fact that, particularly in times of crisis, bringing whatever skills you have to bear, and finding ways to apply them in a way that is asked for and authentic to your community is incredibly important.

Meredith Horowski:

I want to double click on this action around identifying problem statements and working in partnership with your community to figure out what some solutions to those things are. And often that happens in partnership with community based organizations, which I know you work very, very closely with, Liliana.

Meredith Horowski:

Can you tell us in this time where our social structures feel pretty shaken and uncertain on so many levels, from government to education to all over the place, community based organizations are often really trusted messengers, are deeply rooted in the community, understand the needs. From your vantage point, what do these organizations need? What kind of support, technical or otherwise, do you think they can use in this time where they’re a critical pillar of our community support?

Liliana Sandoval:

Yeah, great question. I really do think it just depends on the spectrum of CBOs. So you have really small organizations that are maybe less than five people. And then you have larger ones. Our organization is about 100 or so folks. Really, it depends on the capacity of the organization, it can go from a basic, static information website that no one in-house has the ability to create or to update, to straight just people power. A lot of our organizations just flat out shut down over the last six months, and are just starting to come back online.

Liliana Sandoval:

And so, just communications tools, information dissemination. I think like what Veronica mentioned is already happening, mapping of assets, mapping of where to access, where people who need resources live, the languages that are necessary. Things like that, just from really basic, to going out and creating tools that would help organizations to really gather all the information and disseminate it easily in multiple languages, things like that. It can be very broad.

Liliana Sandoval:

So really, I think everyone has special gifts and experiences and skillsets that they can bring. It really is just about working with what is available to you, and engaging with those organizations and really figuring out what they need from you.

Meredith Horowski:

Thanks. We’ve heard this already and will continue to hear it, the importance of life first, listening to users, people who are engaging with services, but also community partners and folks who have been deeply entrenched in this for a while.

Meredith Horowski:

I want to move to the action around auditing services, social safety net services and your state websites related to those services, which is, as Veronica mentioned, one of the actions for today. Tracey, Jen, what can folks expect to see when they do that? I imagine they can expect to see a lot of different things. Tell us what comes up for you.

Tracey Patterson:

Sure. I would say one, first and foremost, we’ve seen this year in particular, that online has become the only avenue for access, which until now, it had been really treated as like a maybe nice to have extra. And so what you’ll see in most states, not all states, but most states, will be a not very user friendly experience as you go through the application. You may notice lots of repetitive or confusing questions.

Tracey Patterson:

You may also notice and I would ask you to think like, does this question seem to apply to someone who might have three part-time jobs or an informal job? Is this structured in a way that is often, that would make sense if you had to answer the questions yourself or on behalf of someone else?

Tracey Patterson:

And some of them may seem repetitive, nonsensical. Some of them, you may be wondering why the heck is this question on here? Why are they asking me if I’m a fleeing felon right now? So some of the things I will say are there, because they’re required by law, and they might not make any sense. But please call them out, put a bubble around that, ask, why are you asking this? What are you going to gain from this?

Tracey Patterson:

I think it’s really important to look at those with a beginner’s eye and think about the ways that you need to fill out forms or information before and think about that also in a time of stress, because we’re all living through a crisis right now. But when these things happen, when the world is not in crisis, people are still experiencing their own personal crises.

Tracey Patterson:

So thinking about like, what is it like to fill this out when you’re feeling okay? And think about what it would feel like to be filling it out when you’re not. Because those emotions really do matter. Many of the civil servants administering these programs really do care. Most people don’t get into social services, because they want to harm people. So calling out the ways in which the casual cruelty can be really stark is important, because people do want to make change for the most part.

Jennifer Wagner:

Yeah, and just following up on what Tracey said, I would encourage you to have as much constructive criticism as possible. It’d be pretty easy to just lambaste the policies and the way people go about this. But as Tracey said, the people who are within government are trying, are doing their best. And it’s hard to imagine the crises that they have to jump from on a day-to-day basis and what they’re facing.

Jennifer Wagner:

And most of the roadblocks, some are intentional. I’m not minimizing what’s happening in Texas, Florida, Oklahoma, lots of different places. But many of the, just sludge in there, is the result of over many years, people adding on a question, a federal policy changing, that forces you to reframe something. And instead of really analyzing, how are households asked about it, how can we do this in a comprehensive way, it just adds another question and adds another question.

Jennifer Wagner:

And unfortunately, a lot of state governments don’t have the ability to take a step back and say, what is this like from a user perspective? How is this affecting people? From their perspective, oh, we have an online application, check the box and move on to the next 27 crazies that are waiting for you that day.

Jennifer Wagner:

I’m really excited about today. But I’m more excited about next week, to see what you all come up with, and the feedback that you have. What a difference this can make. Anybody can say how ridiculous an online application is. Don’t look at it that way. Look at, there’s overworked people within a government that don’t have the ability to hire somebody to do what you’re going to do today.

Jennifer Wagner:

So use feedback that will really help them, when they have the opportunity to open that up and make changes, because they really want to make this better. And I think you can give them the tools and information to make that happen.

Meredith Horowski:

Great, I think helpful reminder that, while some of these questions are absolutely intentional, or are there because legislation mandates it, there’s also things that aren’t. It’s being able to highlight and communicate those things and point out like, hey, this language doesn’t make sense or this question is asked twice. It’s actually quite helpful in terms of thinking about how we can redesign these services in a way that’s more accessible. And the great news is, you don’t need to bring any particular skill to that work, other than going through it yourself as a human, as someone who might be trying to interact with these services.

Meredith Horowski:

I want to pivot to questions from our fantastic audience today. The first one, one for Tracey or Jen. We have here, it sounds like a lot of administrative burden has been lifted. For example, people don’t need to send in paperwork every six months, as you mentioned, or reaffirm their eligibility. And that’s happening during this time, during this crisis.

Meredith Horowski:

And the question is, how likely is it that that’s going to continue after COVID-19? Will government be able to justify going back to the flip of our theme, more paperwork over people framing and services after this?

Jennifer Wagner:

I fear that there’s going to be a backlash after this, where really the doors have been open and people have come on, there’s going to be that person who was on Medicaid, but now has a high paying job and didn’t cancel their Medicaid and was left on for a year or whatever it might be. And that can create a lot of backlash, and there’s a concern about that.

Jennifer Wagner:

But on the other hand, state governments and others are realizing that a lot of what is happening, a lot of the applications are actually a result of churn. And churn is when somebody loses benefit at a redetermination, or at some point, because of paperwork. They actually continue to be eligible, but maybe they didn’t send in pay stubs or respond to some requests for information from the state.

Jennifer Wagner:

And that’s not happening right now, because not a lot of cancellations are happening. I think that’s going to make states realize that this is real and this is causing a lot of work for us. Obviously, it’s hurting people as well. But it’s causing a lot of work.

Jennifer Wagner:

And the fortunate thing is that there are good provisions that allow states to be more efficient in some of these processes. For example, in Medicaid, states are actually required to first look at electronic data sources and see if they can confirm ongoing eligibility, before they even send out a notice to the client. And if they can confirm ongoing eligibility, they automatically renew, send a notice to the client, say, hey, let us know if anything’s wrong, but you don’t have to respond.

Jennifer Wagner:

So how can we use the information from this crisis and the changes that have been made to really push through better policies, and push states to take advantage of existing policies and flexibilities to make the system overall more efficient, and make sure that eligible people stay enrolled?

Meredith Horowski:

Thanks, Jen. Tracey, anything you want to add?

Tracey Patterson:

Yeah, no, I think I would say too, like in crisis, all of those changes have also been piecemeal. They’ve been state by state waivers. So some of you in some states might be saying, what is she talking about? Paperwork hasn’t been removed. So I would also just say there may be a backlash because of that, there may also be the fact that some states haven’t seen this type of relief, whereas others have applied for waivers and things like that.

Tracey Patterson:

And so I think we really need to lift up what can be different. It’s not always going to be creating a new app or things like that, but it will take really a concerted effort, because I think we’re seeing right now in the news when we hear so much about unemployment and things like that, it’s that a lot of these indignities in the system that people have been going through all along, are now being seen by so many more people who’ve not accessed safety net services before. And that’s often the first step, just like the photograph Amanda showed. It’s seeing how this really impacts people on the ground that leads to the change. It’s not always the…

Meredith Horowski:

Thanks, Tracey. I want to kick this over to Liliana as well. You mentioned the ways in which San Francisco and Marin Food Bank has changed some of their strategies and their tactics in response to this crisis. Do you see those things continuing after this crisis?

Liliana Sandoval:

Yes, definitely. A question that we continually ask ourselves during very local crises, and now in a national crises, how do we continue to serve people with dignity, with equity? And even beyond that, who are the people that we are not serving and why, and how do we make sure that we provide access to them?

Liliana Sandoval:

And so we had to grow many of our programs within a very short period of time and also create new programming. It’s been really successful. We also stripped away a lot of, just some of the internal bureaucracies that we had created, to really just open up the doors to people who had whatever qualms about accessing food pantries in the past. We created home delivered groceries programs and expanded them for people who were considered high risk and could not go to grocery stores. And folks who did not have other people in the home to be able to go get groceries or that sort of assistance.

Liliana Sandoval:

So it’s definitely some conversations that we’re having. I know that a lot of our partners are also considering just maintaining this expansion of programming, that has had to be created in order to serve this vast new need.

Meredith Horowski:

Thanks, Liliana. Now, this probably doesn’t feel like news to anyone, but it really does feel as though there really is no going back, if you will, there is no going back to normal in so many different ways. I think this is a flavor of that.

Meredith Horowski:

Veronica, what about on the organizing side? I think the fact that we’re relying so much on in-person or not in-person connection and Zoom and other tools has changed the way we organize. Do you see that sticking around?

Veronica Young:

Yeah. So I think that we really are making a shift into how can we help with active projects that are happening in our communities? So there’s a lot more cross collaboration that we’ve seen within the network between folks wanting to contribute, not just with their local Brigade, but also with projects that might be happening somewhere else as well.

Veronica Young:

So there’s really a coming together of folks to reach beyond what their normal geographical boundaries were previously, to creating more coalesced efforts to be able to make contributions in other places. So it’s cool to see that the fact that everybody is online, even in a more tech focused volunteer space, is still making people even more dependent on those online capabilities, but also is bringing people together, I think in a way that we hadn’t seen to this extent before.

Meredith Horowski:

I want to shift to another audience question, which is about the narrative, the national narrative around poverty and the safety net. How do you all see Code for America shaping that narrative and how do we measure how it changes? How do we address it? What is our opportunity there to change how we think and talk about poverty?

Tracey Patterson:

Sure, I can take that for the Code for America perspective, in the question. I love this question, because I think it is absolutely critical to both the work that we do and how we bring about change in society. Because I think the technological systems that we see, the policy systems that we see, these are all a representation of culture, and culture and beliefs. And I think until we really start to take on the stigma, and the ways in which people are often individually shamed and feel shamed for struggles that are often structural and systemic, is at the root of how our programs are designed.

Tracey Patterson:

Our programs are often designed to be an emergency system. When the truth is, our ongoing economic system does not serve people equally. So that working a full-time job pays all of your costs, or the fact that you can’t work a full-time job does not make your humanity any less.

Tracey Patterson:

And so I think both in ways that technology itself can be more accessible, whether that be through phone, making sure that things are designed for accessibility, all the ranges of accessibility, and what that means. So that people really see themselves as belonging, as being part, as not feeling like this is not for me. That’s central to what we do, whether it’s the images we use, the words we use to describe.

Tracey Patterson:

I’m really big on always just talking about this is about we, not they. And so making sure that we recognize that we are all, maybe not all of us, but most of us are just one life crisis away from being in the same position as someone else who you may feel apart from. I think we really need to use technology as a way to connect people in our humanity and not reduce ourselves also to another way of how we can be set apart.

Meredith Horowski:

Thanks, Tracey. Anyone else want to pile on to that one? It’s a big question.

Jennifer Wagner:

I think it’s an important opportunity, where a lot of the people who are on these programs, unfortunately, in the past have been invisible. But when you look at the 2008 recession, when you look at now, it’s the person next door, it might be somebody in your family who’s trying to navigate the unemployment system or trying to get on Medicaid, but they can’t work right now. And that makes it real. And it’s wrong. The people who are in the programs before were real and deserved attention before, and deserved improvements, more dignity. But this lifts up these programs and experiences that folks are going through.

Jennifer Wagner:

And so how do we take that moment and say, your neighbors should be treated with dignity, the same way that somebody who lost their job and is trying to raise their kids, and has been on food stamps for a while, they should also be treated with dignity. And how can we make sure that we’re making policy for the 99% not the 1%? When there’s stories that emerge, it can lead to bad policy.

Jennifer Wagner:

My favorite question, and I don’t know if any folks in Arizona will come across this today, but my very favorite question is do you have any rare or exotic animals? There is an asset test for SNAP in some states and different things count for assets, it’s not just cash in the bank or retirement accounts and things like that. I think there was one person once who had some special monkey that was worth a lot, and that single person led to this question being asked hundreds, thousands, millions of times to everybody.

Jennifer Wagner:

So how do we really take a critical eye and say, are we going to focus on, is everybody enrolled, eligible? Or are we going to really shift the focus to, is everybody eligible, enrolled? Because that’s where it should be. That’s where it needs to be going forward.

Meredith Horowski:

Love that framing. Thanks, Jen. Feels like a great segue into us wrapping up, so we can end on time and move into the action for the day and our collective day of action, in eight annual National Day of Civic Hacking. So, final question for each of our panelists and also invite audience members to add your reflection on this into the chat.

Meredith Horowski:

What’s something that’s giving you hope right now? There’s a lot to despair. And I think important that we find some grains of things to hang on to. So rapid fire, what’s giving you some hope? Let’s start with Liliana.

Liliana Sandoval:

Honestly, not to be trite or cheesy or anything, but forums like this. I think seeing so many folks enrolled in here on a Saturday morning or early afternoon, just really standing up and saying, I’m here to help, how can I help? That is really giving me hope, because that’s something that we need right now.

Meredith Horowski:

Veronica?

Veronica Young:

I was actually just going to say the same thing. I’m seeing hundreds of people here showing up today to be part of making positive change in their communities, is just extremely energizing and motivating and thank you all for being here.

Meredith Horowski:

Thanks, Veronica. Jen, Tracey, go for it, Jen.

Jennifer Wagner:

Okay. I’ve got a lot of hope about what we can learn from this current crisis. There’s been a lot of horrible things. But there are things that are being brought to the forefront. Previously, having a mobile friendly application was considered a nice to have, now it’s a must have, and how do we take the lessons and what’s happened and what states have accomplished during this crisis, and continue going forward to make sure that everyone is served?

Meredith Horowski:

Interesting.

Tracey Patterson:

I was going to echo everything everyone said. I think even just thinking like, we may not feel like a month from now is going to better or we may not know if there’s literal and figurative clear skies right around the corner. But when I think of five years from now, looking back that all of you decided to spend a Saturday trying to help society in some way, that each of us can say, what did you do during this moment, and that we really did do something. I think that for me makes me feel like we are headed somewhere better, even if we don’t know exactly what that looks like just yet.

Meredith Horowski:

With that, thank you so much to our panelists. I’m going toss it over to Amanda, feel free to chime in on that question and wrap us up.

Amanda Renteria:

Thank you, and I love that question. It’s why I’m at Code for America. It’s why I’m with all of you today. I got to tell you, what does give me hope is that the only way we actually change our country, the only way we make it better is all of us coming together, not only how we should treat people with dignity and respect.

Amanda Renteria:

And so I want to just leave you with this idea. Imagine you lost your job on Monday. And on Tuesday, you received a text from the government that says, we’re sorry to hear you’re unemployed. We’ve got your back. We signed you up for unemployment insurance, your prepaid debit card is on its way. Next week, we’ll send job opportunities. Is there any other way we can support you?

Amanda Renteria:

Now I know that might feel really far for folks right now, to imagine a government that can do that, or a phone app that can do that. But that’s what we’re creating. That’s a one day at a time. That’s the paperwork and the questions that we’re changing, that’s putting people at the center of it.

Amanda Renteria:

And so I am excited to see all the work that’s going to happen. I can’t wait to pop in to the meetings on these projects, and just want to thank you all for being with us. I am giving you a virtual hug.

Veronica Young:

Yes. And just to follow up with where you can go from here, we are breaking out into our three action breakout rooms. So just put those links in the chat. If you do anything today to be able to participate in the day of action, make sure that you look at the FAQ doc, which I’m going to put right here in the chat, as well as joining Slack. You’ll be able to get all the information that you need for the day.

Veronica Young:

And then if you move immediately into one of the three breakout action rooms right now, you can learn a little bit more about each action, go through a bit of an onboarding, and then get the tools that you need to actually take action today. So those are in the chat as well.

Meredith Horowski:

Thank you all so much for being here to kick off our eighth annual National Day of Civic Hacking, feeling so energized and inspired by this panel and of course, all of you. So with that, we hope you head into the next action breakout room of your choice, and then join a Brigade meetup or a group of folks who are taking action together today.

Meredith Horowski:

Thank you. Have a great rest of your Saturday and Happy National Day.